Wednesday, April 30, 2025

PHUKET / THAILAND

A TALE OF TWO COUNTRIES 
It was the best of times. It was the wurst of times. 
Thailand and Phuket

Had we not traveled extensively through the northern reaches of Thailand with the Overseas Adventure Travel company (OAT) and only went south to the ‘vacation’ areas of Thailand we would have come away from our trip to this Southeast Asian country with a completely different view.

Our ‘Discover Thailand’ tour with OAT had us visit historical places like Kanchanaburi where the “Bridge Over the River Kwai” was erected and where we toured the Hellfire pass of the Siam/Burma railway, colloquially called the “Death Railway” and cruised along the River Kwai in long boats. We got up close and personal with elephants at Eco Valley. We experienced the night markets in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai when we visited both cities. We stood at the pinnacle of the Golden Triangle where Laos, Burma and Thailand meet and learned the dubious history of this once major opium producing area of the world. In Sukhothai we gave alms to monks on their daily Bindabat walkabout.

Had we NOT had these wonderful and lasting experiences in our back pocket of memories and traveled only to Phuket, a large Thai island just off the Malay peninsula, renowned for its beaches and nightlife, our memories would have been consumed by visions of overweight Germans wearing barely there speedos displacing water in the Andaman Sea and bulging over the edges of their coveted and fought over pool-side chaise lounges at the resort.

Now, do you get the “wurst” reference? Russians and Asian Indians and Koreans too were there.

All along the strand of the Kamala Beach where we stayed for one more week after our tour of northern Thailand the restaurants displayed their menus in several languages. There was no Thai culture here, but there were a lot of beach activities.

There were so many tourists that whenever I offered a Wai as a thank you or greeting to a Thai, they nearly jumped out of their skin to return this gesture of respect, so unexpected was it.

People came to Phuket to loll about and work on their tan and to party.

Mind you, it was beautiful, but it wasn’t the Thailand that we had experienced for the previous two weeks.

WHITE LOTUS, LADYBOYS AND GOLDILOCKS

We stayed at the Sunprime resort at Kamala Beach in Phuket. Adults only at our resort. It was nowhere near the opulence of the Four Seasons Resort in Koh Samui where “White Lotus” was filmed, and it was not even close to the frenetic party scene in the nearby city of Patong. It was just right, quiet with no kids allowed at the resort, but still with plenty of families on the strand and beach.
Bangla Road, Patong

Down the road from Kamala is the party town of Patong. We took a day trip down there and walked the Bangla Road, the center of nightlife in Patong. At night Bangla with bars, clubs and "other" entertainment venues, is frenetic. During the day this raucous strip was still open with shills and ladies of dubious chromosomes beckoning us to enter, but we sheepishly kept walking.
We were too old and Kamala Beach was more relaxed for us.

The beaches and the islands are very beautiful, but it would be ludicrous for us to travel so far to just come to a beach town, but for the Europeans, Indians and Koreans it was a great destination.

Phuket was always a dream destination for me. I can’t say I was disappointed, things are much cheaper in Thailand, and Kamala Beach was beautiful, but it is a long way to come, especially since we have the Caribbean in our backyard.

Patong Beach, Phuket

It was great being there for a relaxing week instead of living out of our suitcase. After a while, we even learned to avert our eyes from the banana hammock parade around the pool.

Speaking of wurst… there were several restaurant options along the strand, which is a concrete sidewalk edging the beach, and in town with menu displays in several languages. Foods ranged from Thai to wiener schnitzel to pizza. We tried all three during the week whenever we ventured off the resort grounds. Here are our recommendations:

Bella Vista Kamala - Beachfront – pizza. Comfort food. Sometimes Pad Thai doesn’t satisfy. Sit inside in the air conditioning. They take credit cards

Blue Manao – Na Hat Road - Thai to European. We went for the Weiner Schnitzel. Crowded. Recommended by the Scuba Quest Dive Shop across the street. They should know they are German. The restaurant takes credit cards.

Sweet Dreams

Sweet Dreams
Sweet Dreams Restaurant – Na Hat Road - Thai. Monique and Andy, the owners of Scuba Quest recommended Sweet Dreams next door. The exterior of this second flood restaurant was enveloped by vines, making the atmosphere as lovely as their food. Cash only.






NUDIBRANCHS

We are scuba divers and Scuba Quest had a dive shop on the Sunprime Resort. They were apologetic when they found out most of our diving has been in the Caribbean. The water clarity in Thailand doesn’t come close, but the crew took us on a two-tank dive where we had a school of fish swirling around us, and we got to see several Nudibranchs which are sea slugs.
Diving in Phuket


 I had told Andy my dive guide I was interested in seeing this elusive and colorful creature and he made sure to point them out each time he saw one. Don’t see Nudibranch in the Caribbean.  

SCUBA QUEST - KAMALA BEACH

THE BEACH

Over saturation of tourism can be detrimental to an environment and after “The Beach” came out in 2000, starring Leonardo DiCaprio people flocked to Maya Bay to such a degree that the coral reefs were dying. Now, Thailand charges visitors who wish to travel to this majestic bay and there are still hordes that come for the 20-minute thrill of seeing Maya Bay.
Maya Bay
We did, as part of a full day tour that took us by speedboat to the Bay, where we couldn’t swim, Pileh Cove where we did swim in the turquoise waters, Bamboo Island where we snorkeled and Phi Phi Island that brimmed with kids ready to party. Island Dream Exploration was the outfitter and lunch was included.
Bamboo Island

So, in the same trip to Thailand we went from one extreme of experiences to another. Both were rewarding, but only because we experienced both.

The strand at Kamala Beach


                                                                Patong bar

Thanks for reading

Love Janet and greg

© 2025 by Gregory Dunaj


Nudibranchs



Monday, April 28, 2025

CHIANG RAI AND THE GOLDEN TRIANGLE

PUTTING A FACE TO A NAME
Golden Triangle
Buddha
The “Discover Thailand” tour we took with Overseas Adventure Travels brought us from Bangkok to Chiang Mai, with several stops in between, and then finally Chiang Rai.

The small city was a sleepy version of Chiang Mai. The streets were similarly lined with massage parlors and eateries, both local and western, and bars and like Chiang Mai there was a night market. There were two stages in two different locales. One had someone playing a guitar and singing, that was off to one side. This section was more formal and was tree-lined with tables serviced by restaurants surrounding the little square.

Then there was the main area, lined with eateries of all sorts of Thai foods like mango and sticky rice and seafoods and everything in between with tables filling the center. At one end there was a stage where there was traditional music and apsara dancers.

Chiang Rai Night Market

In this section of the night market all the restaurants were all self-serves. You order your food and then find a table. Everywhere there were kiosks selling everything from art to clothing. There were a lot of westerners milling about.  

We had ample time to walk through the market and get something to eat, but OAT used the town as a jumping off point for our last side trip of the tour.



DOI TUNG AND THE PRINCESS MOTHER 
From the mountain top of Doi Tung you can see Burma and Laos and it was here where Princess Srinagarindra stared down the opium drug lords of the Golden Triangle and helped to push Thailand into a sustainable economy featuring cash crops and aiding the once overlooked hill tribe people. 
Doi Tung Villa of
Princess Srinagarindra 

She is revered. The hill tribe people call her Mae Fah Luang or “The Royal Mother from the Sky”. It is a proper moniker as her efforts in not only pushing for sustainable cash crops, but also education, social welfare and public health and environmental conservation have aided Thailand immensely, and her Royal Villa at Doi Tung and the surrounding grounds are now a tourist attraction. We took a self-guided audio tour, after first removing our shoes, as is the Thai custom and learned how she helped the country. If you visit, make sure to get a coffee at the Doi Tung coffee shop. Through the efforts of the Princess Arabica coffee and macadamia nuts were part of the cash-crops used to replace the opium trade that had gripped the area for decades.

THE GOLDEN BUDDHA AND THE HOUSE OF OPIUM

In 1971 at a press conference regarding the proliferation of opium coming from the southeast Asian countries of Burma, Laos and Thailand, a US State Department official referred to the area as the Golden Triangle. The name stuck and though the “golden triangle” covers a large area between the three countries it is possible to “see” the triangle at the confluence of the Mekong and Ruak Rivers in the town of Ban Sop Ruak in Thailand. This is where Burma (Myanmar) and Laos and Thailand abut. There are several monuments there along the plaza of this ominous area as well as a massive Golden Buddha statue.
The Golden Triangle
Left to right: Thailand, Burma, Laos

Just seeing three countries in such proximity is breathtaking. Leisure and working boats ply the river with the hotels and casinos on the Laotian side rise dramatically while the finger of land separating Thailand from Burma (Myanmar) snakes to a point where the silt choked waters of the Ruak slowly mix with the clearer water of the Mekong that flows all the way through Cambodia and Vietnam and into the Mekong Delta before meeting the South China Sea.
Map of Golden Triangle

Given the infamous history of the Golden Triangle it may be difficult for some to fully appreciate the beauty of this point.

As a reminder of the history OAT had us visit the House of Opium, a private museum a short walk from the point. There we learned about opium cultivation and how the workers extracted the sap from the poppy plants for opium. Also included in the tour was a collection of the special cutting tools used to scour the opium and the ornate weights used in the commerce of this illicit trade.

Afterwards we boarded colorful trucks that had to be hand-cranked to start and we chortled up into the hills for a lunch.

Thanks for reading.

Love Janet and greg

House of Opium Museum

Doi Tung

Doi Tung gardens

The Mekong River with Laos in background and the Golden Buddha

Our ride through the Golden Triangle

Chiang Rai Night Market



© 2025 by Gregory Dunaj

Wednesday, April 23, 2025

ON THE ROAD TO CHIANG RAI

Thai Silk Village
ALOHA SHIRTS AND MONK CHATS
Sheesh… what it takes to be a fashionista!

You saintly readers who follow our adventures around the world through this blog know that I really like Aloha shirts. Some call them “Hawaiian” shirts, some call them “Bula” shirts as they do in Fiji. Some call them “Postcards you can wear”.

I call them necessary.

Janet may argue against the “need”.

She is a party pooper.

We had visited Lahaina years before the devastating fire there and I had picked out 250 Aloha shirts at the Salvation Army thrift store. They even had a special, separate room for these remarkable shirts

She made me whittle my selection down to one.

I even had an Aloha shirt made for me at a tailor in Hoi An Vietnam last year, although I had to bribe her with jewelry purchases, massages and alcohol!

Thai Silk VIllage
And, so, when we stopped at the Thai Silk Village factory as we left Chiang Mai on our way to our final stop on our “Discover Thailand” tour with Overseas Adventure Travel (OAT), I HAD to buy a silk Aloha shirt.

Silkworms before selection

Surprisingly Janet didn’t make me beg too much, but I had to endure a tour of the village and watch the process of retrieving silk from the cocoons and the weaving and the etc. etc. etc. before I could shop.

Then Janet had to approve the selection. I wanted one with elephants and she told me to get one with palm trees. ‘Yes Dear,’ I said.

Even before we got to Thai Silk Village we all had to sit through an informative “chat” with a monk at Wat Suan Dok. OAT arranged for a private chat for our group and the monk, who wore sunglasses indoors for street cred I guess, told us about Buddhism and this way of life that teaches patience and acceptance. Then he took questions.


Janet elbowed me when I tried to ask how long this was going to take?

Sheesh… the things I endure to be a fashionista.

Thanks for reading. (I really did like the monk chat.)

Love Janet and greg

A monk and his whiteboard


Wat Suan Dok, Chiang Mai




© 2025 by Gregory Dunaj


I am not alone. 


Tuesday, April 22, 2025

HIKING IN DOI INTHANON NATIONAL PARK

RAPIDS, NOT RIFLES
at Doi Inthanon 

We opted to take a day trip to hike at Thailand’s Doi Inthanon National Park rather than explore the city of Chiang Mai, even though it was an added excursion. Overseas Adventure Travel (OAT) arranged for us to travel to Thailand’s most popular park with a guide for $210 for the both of us.

Famous for its waterfalls, vistas and birdwatching, the nickname of Doi Inthanon National Park is “the Roof of Thailand”. The park is part of the Himalayan mountains, with peaks ranging from 800 meters to Doi Inthanon itself at 2,535 meters in elevation. In comparison, Mt. Everest rises to 8,848 meters and so our hike, which started at a much lower elevation, was just a walk in the park, and thankfully mostly downhill.

walking sticks
Doi Inthanon
The trail was well-marked and maintained and before we headed off, we had our choice of bamboo staves to use as walking sticks. Our guide spoke with an American accent and the first thing he pointed out was it will be safe. No longer will there be men with machine guns guarding the opium trade that flourished here for decades. 

This was a bit unnerving at first but armed with this good news we proceeded.





THE PLANT OF JOY

Opium cultivation has gone on for millennia. The Sumerians called the plant “Hul Gil”, or the plant of joy. Opium had been cultivated in southeast Asia for centuries as well and was used in moderation by local communities, like the Hmong and Karen, as a part of their culture. Opium though was the only available cash crop and the impoverished highlanders and others who migrated into the area began to grow a lot of poppy plants. 
poppy 

THE GOLDEN TRIANGLE

This mountainous region where Thailand, Burma (Myanmar) and Laos meet was once the world’s largest producer of opium. At its height in the 1960s 145 tons of opium were produced annually. Even though Thailand banned opium in 1958, the illicit trade would simply shift to Laos, or Burma, or eventually back to Thailand depending on the political climate. Back then there were more guns and warlords than tourists in the Golden Triangle, but that has all changed today, at least in Thailand.

FROM POPPY TO COFFEE

Starting in 1969 on the initiative started by King Bhumibol Adulyade the idea of alternative planting was begun. Wishing to solve the problems caused by deforestation, because slash-and-burn agriculture was the prevalent method of opium farming, the illicit trade of opium production and the poverty that the people of the area never rose above, the King pushed the idea of replacing drug-crops with legal sustainable crops. Legal crops like coffee, rice, fruits like pomelo, longan or dragon’s eye fruit, strawberries and even peaches, and vegetables like carrots, cabbage and Japanese pumpkin have proved to be as lucrative as the opium trade, but without the risk of conducting criminal activities.
our guide

Along with this alternative approach to farming the Royal Project addresses illiteracy and public health in the remote mountains.

So, indeed the dark times of the commerce of opium in Thailand were behind us and we were able to enjoy our hike through Doi Inthanon without fear.






STRAWBERRY FIELDS FOREVER

After a short up-hill climb our hike was all downhill. The bamboo staves cut for just this purpose came in handy as some of the terrain was rootbound and uneven. Some of the descent was narrow and steep, but there were wooden railings at some of the more treacherous stretches.
strawberry field
Doi Inthanon

Our local guide pointed out different plants and told us about the animals in the park, including several species of monkeys, although we saw nothing but the local flora and fauna. Evidently Doi Inthanon is a birders paradise, but we were just a noisy group tramping through the forest enjoying the fresh air and several majestic waterfalls.


We passed an open field that was being tended to by members of the Karen tribe, but it was strawberries not opium. We got some samples and purchased some to nibble on as we trekked. One could easily imagine poppy plants flourishing here at one time.



IT TAKES A VILLAGE

Nearing the end of our hike the forest gave way to a valley of terraced rice paddies and coffee trees. The trail followed an aqueduct to our guide’s village. Mae Klang Luang. At a crossroads an enterprising tourist stand was set up and a woman was weaving cloth using a backstrap loom while other women presided over rows of the finished product. 
Janet bought one to use as a table runner and insisted the weaving woman pose for a picture with the selected artisan cloth.

Included in the cost of the excursion was a hearty lunch. We enjoyed our meal while looking out on the most idyllic scenery. Despite the very rural setting, the restaurant had pristine modern bathrooms for guests. No doubt this was part of the infrastructure support given to the hill tribes as part of the Royal Project.

The last stop before we returned to Chiang Mai was the coffee shop. There were several other groups enjoying free samples of coffee being brewed by the largest chorreador I had ever seen. Water was poured over a large sack filled with coffee grinds and allowed to drip into a pot. We had several cups and then bought a sealed packet of their coffee to take home. We had so much caffeine Janet decided to run alongside the van for a while.

Thanks for reading.

terraced rice paddies

our view at lunch

coffee shop!


coffee Thai style


Love Janet and greg

© 2025 by Gregory Dunaj

Tuesday, April 15, 2025

ELEPHANT ECO VALLEY

A DAY TO NEVER FORGET IN THE LAND OF SMILES
poo paper pic frame

One of the day trips we took out of Chiang Mai, Thailand with Overseas Adventure Travels (OAT) was to interact with elephants at what they termed an “elephant care center”.

Ever since we saw the Oscar winning documentary “Elephant Whisperers” about an Indian couple who cared for an orphaned baby elephant we were enamored with the possibility of getting up close to them ourselves.

Our subsequent day of meeting them at the Elephant Eco Valley Zoo was perhaps our most fascinating day in our travels to Thailand.

Once we arrived at the zoo we were asked to put on maroon smocks and water shoes that they provided, placing the items we wanted to keep dry in lockers. The smocks made us look like we were in a cult of some sort, but they kept us dry when we went to bathe the elephants.  

Our guide at the zoo spoke perfect English and told us about the care of these intelligent animals and how they could be extremely skittish. i.e. They are very frightened by bees and could get nervous with loud noises.  

There was a large field sectioned off by wooden fencing and at the far end similarly dressed cult members (joke) were feeding elephants, something we would be doing soon ourselves.

He walked us around to meet an elephant and her mahout. Her name was Tata. She was 40 years old. Asian elephants are smaller than African elephants and my height reached Tata’s eyes. With the help of her mahout who will be with Tata for the rest of her life, she showed us her feet, her trunk and we each got to pose for pictures with the seemingly docile elephant.

UNETHICAL?

Now, if you read about PETA’s thoughts on these “zoos” the elephants are extremely nervous and worried. PETA claims the animals are abused and beaten by mahouts and though they seem placid they are anxious and worried they may be subjected to more abuse.
Tata and her mahout

Well, Tata posed with everyone and endured all the petting we gave her and used her trunk as an elevator to lift her mahout so he could show how one would ride her. She then fetched the flip flop he dropped and “handed” it to him with her very tactile trunk.

Riding elephants happens at many places in Thailand. It you do a quick online search you will find seemingly countless other such “elephant care centers”.

They don’t ride elephants at Eco Valley, and neither should you, but other places allow. PETA feels that elephants should only be observed and not interacted with, as we did on our visit.


While conversing with Tata a much larger bull elephant with tusks that nearly reached the ground thudded past us into the field. Several other elephants followed. It was a new group coming in for their feeding, and these elephants do eat a lot.

SO, YOU WANT TO BE A MAHOUT?

Elephants are herbivores and a bull elephant will consume nearly 500 lbs. of food per day and will excrete about 50 lbs. of dung. Undigested fiber passes right through the elephant.
What's brown and sounds 
like a bell? Dung

In the wild elephants will not eat in unclean areas and need to roam for food; sometimes they stray onto farms. This obviously is a pain for the farmers, and they dissuade roaming herds with loud noises and even electrical fencing. It’s a delicate balance as the elephant is considered the royal symbol of Thailand and hurting an elephant is probably not a good thing.

Domesticated elephants like those at Elephant Eco Valley don’t have to roam vast areas of forest to avoid eating where they poop. That’s because part of the mahout’s job is to collect the dung.

(Insert joke here.)

This keeps the captive elephant’s areas clean, and the fibrous dung is used to make large sheets of paper. The mahouts process this poo and wash out all the bacteria and the fibers are dried out onto large screens in frames. The resulting paper is then fashioned into notecards, etc. The paper doesn’t smell.

Everyone in our group politely declined when given the chance to help in the process.

As a gift for our visit to Eco Valley we were given picture frames made from poo paper. Now we tell friends who visit how shit-faced we are in the picture, with Tata looking on approvingly.   

HAPPY HERD
Making Elephant vitamin pills
We were then led to a large mortar and pestle to pound ingredients into a nutritional herb and fruit vitamin ball. One person would operate the hinged wooden pestle as it crushed, and another would poke at the contents with a stick to ensure everything got all mixed up well. We then molded the mash into large hand-sized balls.

Later, at the field we got to feed them. Five or so came right up to the fencing and begged for the “vitamin” pills and sugar cane and bananas that we obligingly fed them. Elephants are strong and intelligent. They understand words and if we said, “Ba” instead of reaching for the food with their trunks, they would lift them and open their mouths so we could feed them directly. None were aggressive, but you could see them watching us as we reached for more food and they wouldn’t leave until our cache of edibles was gone.

It was truly a great experience.

SONGKRAN FESTIVAL COMES EARLY  

In Thailand the lunar new year is celebrated with water fights. For three days in mid-April massive water fights break out throughout the country and crowds of people will squirt water pistols and toss buckets of water at each other. Songkran is Thailand’s most important festival and it’s all about purification.

Well, part of the visit to Eco Valley was to bathe elephants. Armed with buckets and pulverized sugar cane stalks that served as brushes (and were later eaten by the elephants) some of our group waded into the water and tended to the appreciative beasts. One even lay on it side, sprouting water in the air like a fountain. (We were cautioned to stay to the back side of the elephant, not by the feet. Earlier this year at another care center a woman who on the belly side of the elephant was killed when the elephant abruptly moved.)

We were told the elephants loved the bathing and it was wonderful to caress their bristly rough skin as we scrubbed and tossed buckets of water on them. At the end they gobbled up the brushes.

Janet and I were the last ones out and the elephant who had been lying in the water stood up and started spraying us with water. Of course, his mahout was telling him to do so, and you can see the handler motion for the elephant to give us a good soaking in the attached video. The beast shrugged off my counter- attack.

We may have been “purified” in a Songkran festival at Eco Valley, but the shower was very necessary. Don’t want to have that elephant water on your body for too long!

Afterwards we were served a very large lunch and given the poo paper picture frames as parting gifts.

 


THE DARK SIDE

There is estimated to be 3,500 wild elephants in Thailand, and about the same number of domesticated elephants. This is down from the estimated 100,000 elephants in the country at the start of the 20th Century. Wild elephants need space to roam and forage for food, but the habitat of wild elephants has been greatly diminished through logging and human encroachment and now there are protected areas for elephants. Their numbers dwindled enough to place them on the endangered species list.

These intelligent and strong creatures are important to Thailand as the royal symbol of the country. In many Asian cultures the elephant is considered sacred. Buddhist texts describe one of the Buddha’s past lives as an elephant.

They have been used in war, transportation and before logging was banned in 1989 used for manual labor, dragging logs through the forest. This was the elephant’s primary “occupation” but afterwards mahouts, whose skills as handlers have been passed down through generations, and their elephants turned to the entertainment industry and tourism to earn a living.

During the pandemic tourism collapsed in Thailand and caused severe hardship for elephants and mahouts, making it difficult to properly care for the animals. Now, with tourism returning, questions are growing about the ethical treatment of the elephants. Elephants are a matriarchal society and form strong social bonds within their herd that transit generations. Even grandmother elephants help with the care of their granddaughters.  

After our visit to Elephant EcoValley, I read up on the industry. All the “activities” we did at the zoo, like feeding and bathing them, is unnatural. Overfeeding leads to obesity, bathing is a social activity for the elephants, and they cover their skin with mud to act as a sunscreen and insect repellent. Repeated baths throughout the day can lead to skin afflictions.

The best eco-tourist activity is to watch the elephants from afar, like at the Elephant Nature Park, down the road from Elephant EcoValley, where rescued animals are kept in spacious areas and tourists are invited to watch the elephants as they go about their lives. It would be difficult to release formerly captive elephants into the wild because they haven’t learned to cope in the wild.

There are several other similar eco-friendly elephant places to visit. Here is a list compiled by a website “Responsible Travel: 

Elephant EcoValley is not on this list.

We had a great time that day, but I doubt I will ever do it again, Songkran water fight or not.

Read more from Sustainable Travel International?

STICKING YOUR NECK OUT

Before we went to the zoo, we first visited the Huay Pa Rai Hilltribe Village. It is a Karen tribe. The diverse ethnic groups of people known as Karen mainly reside along the Myanmar / Thailand border. Many in Thailand are refugees, fleeing the ongoing conflict in Myanmar. They are poor and rely on tourism dollars. Some say these people are being exploited, that this is unethical, like being in a zoo themselves.


All we saw of the village really was the line of ‘shops’ with Karen women selling trinkets, cloth weavings and t-shirts. The women all wore large bands of metal around their necks giving the appearance it was elongated. Some of the women were very demure and sat, their eyes downcast, while others were engaging and offered to pose for pictures and even offered to place the neck bands around some of our group. Some women were weaving cloth for sale, others were selling everything from keychains to t-shirts. I felt awkward about being there, but I knew they relied on our tourism dollars.

We then rode in pickup trucks up a rugged road to reach the Elephant Eco Valley Zoo.

Thanks for reading.


 The trailer for the Elephant Whisperers on Netflix.

Love Janet and greg

© 2025 by Gregory Dunaj